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London
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Hi Kryss.
I have found your site through a link from Subways.net to your article on the Piccadilly Line. My name is Steve and I have lived in the old borough of Southgate all my 52 years. So I have used the Piccadilly all my life, firstly from Bounds Green then, from 1970, from Southgate. I thought your article was very interesting. Perhaps you would allow me to elaborate on a few details, pinpoint a few dates and make just a couple of small corrections. I don't know exactly when you wrote the article so maybe you have already been advised of the following.
Charles Tyson Yerkes was indeed an American. At the beginning of the century American financial interests were expanding worldwide. Yerkes (1837-1905) controlled many miles of electric and horse tramways in Chicago and represented wealthy financial syndicates. He became interested in the Hampstead tube and bought the powers with other members of his syndicate on 1 October 1900. He then secured effective control of the District Railway in March 1901. He formed the Metropolitan District Electric Traction Co. on 15 July 1901, which took over control of the District Railway and the proposed Hampstead line and also arranged to build Lots Road Power Station. He bought several other railways possessing rights to build lines shortly afterwards, including, as you mention the railways, which were to form the Piccadilly. His company was reconstituted on 9 April 1902 as the Underground Electric Railways Co. of London Ltd., familiarly known as the Underground group.
Here are some precise dates for events that you mention. Gillespie Road station was renamed Arsenal on 31 October 1932. The adverts have been cleared away now and the name can be clearly seen. Aldwych station closed on 3 October 1994. Down Street closed on 22 May 1932 and Brompton Road two years later on 30 July 1934. The Ongar branch, mentioned in your section on the Central Line, closed on 30 September 1994. In the Bakerloo Line section the line was extended in 1917 to Watford Junction. It was cut back in 1982 to Queen's Park with some journeys to Stonebridge Park but was re-extended to Harrow and Wealdstone in 1984. There are just two small errors. The Bakerloo Line stretch from Baker Street to Finchley Road was opened in 1939. In your Questions, Fulham Broadway station was Walham Green, not Waltham Green.
KryssTal Reply: Hi Steve
Sorry about my delay in responding to your excellent and informative letter.
I have taken your dates and points on board.
To whom this may concern!
I find your pages extremely interesting. What would interest me very much: Where does the name "Piccadilly" come from??
Thank you very much
KryssTal Reply: Thank you. The enswer to your question is on my Piccadilly Line page.
Dear Kryss,
Just to let you know that along with Kensington & Chelsea, Kingston upon Thames is also a royal borough, The Royal Borough of Kingston upon Thames.
KryssTal Reply: Thank you for your update. I have made the change.
Kryss,
I just have to say thank you for the great and clear info you have provided us Yanks about London. I have always been fascinated by the city since I first picked up a Sherlock Holmes mystery, but have never had a chance to be there.
A while back, my dad dared me to learn enough about the city from a distance that I could write a small story that would pass reasonably pass muster with a Brit. That could be a long time in the making, but finding notes on Cockney rhyming slang just brought me another step closer. Thank you very much. Now you wouldn't happen to know where I could get detailed notes on the 19th century London underground's habits, would you?
KryssTal Reply: Thank you for your kind comments.
One of the better sources are the Charles Dickens books. You've already read Conan-Doyle. Another good source is the Dr Who story "The Talons of Weng Chiang" set in that period. Avoid Dick Van Dyke in that old movie where he has a "cockney accent".
One point. "Brit" is an Americanism. We never call ourselves that!
Good luck with your story - I hope I can get to read it.
Chears mate!!
I'm from Japan and now I'm doing a project about Cockney at Lancaster University. That's why I accessed this Web. It's really interesting and helpuful for me to know present Rhyming slang because I couldn't get books which is written in recent years. If you can, could you tell me about Music Hall songs. I don't know what it is.
KryssTal Reply: Music hall was before TV and cinema. They used to put acts on stage to entertain people. Many songs were in Cockney.
Hello,
I needed any iformation you may have as to WHY THE TUBE WAS DUG SO DEEP? I was asked this question by my history porfessor and need an answer asap. I searched the web and found nothing close to what I needed. Please reply if you have any idea!
KryssTal Reply: It was built so deep so as not to disrupt the buildings and streets above ground.
Tel: +44-(0)171-379-6344
Fax: +44-(0)171-565-7252
Email: mikea@ltmuseum.co.uk
Home Page: http://www.ltmuseum.co.uk
Green Park (Dover St) wasn't bombed during WW2 - the station entrance was build as a sub-surface hall in 1932/33 as part of the scheme to fit escalators and improve access. The new entrance, along with the necessity to speed up Piccadilly line central area line speeds, allowed the closure of the little used Down Street, which co-incidentally we now organise occassional tours around.
LT / Underground wasn't nationalised in 1933 - that year saw the creation of the LPTB, which like the BBC was a public corporation. LPTB was nationalised along with the rest of British Railways on 1 January 1948, as the LT Executive, part of the British Transport Commission.
Hope that this is of interest
KryssTal Reply: Thank you for your kind comments - appreciated by an amateur like myself.
Hi from Salmon Arm, BC, Canada:
Great web site on London and its Railways - the history is fascinating!
I am researching the relationship between British immigrants who came to this valley in the late 1800's/early 1900's to orchard farm, and some of the original road names they have left.
We do have a Piccadilly, which is obvious, however the one I am having trouble with is Rotten Row. Is this an old London road or street or area name, if so, do you happen to know its significance? I would appreciate any help you might be able to give me with this.
KryssTal Reply: Thank you for your kind comments.
Rotten Row is a street in the Hyde Park area of London. It comes from "Rotteran" (to muster) because it was used as a mustering ground in the English Civil War.
Hope this helps.
Dear Kryss,
I have been trying to find the following information about the Underground and got your address from the Picadilly [Line] site.
1 Was the Circle line the first Underground line and if so what date did it open?
KryssTal Reply: The first underground railway in the world was between Baker Street and Farringdon, opened in 1863 and called the Metropolitan Railway. It is indeed now part of the Circle Line.
2 How many people travel on the Underground system every day? Or how many journeys are made?
KryssTal Reply: You can get all of the stats you need about the Underground from the London Transport site at
Hi!
I'm looking for a picture or poster of the Underground "Piccadilly Circus" sign. The red circle with white center and the blue crossbar with the white lettering of PICCADILLY CIRCUS against the green tile of the subway wall. Do you have any idea where I might look?
We were in London a year and a half ago and had a great time riding the tube.
KryssTal Reply: They are normally sold at the London Transport Museum at Covent Garden
in London. They also do ceramic miniatures.
The full address is
London Transport Museum
Their telephone is (0044 if outside the UK) (020 if outside London) 7379 6344
Good luck
39 Wellington Street
London WC2
England